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Thread: Prawn and BigAls A3 Track Car

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn:1507593
    Quote Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
    Not at all, the car would still without a doubt be better with AWD. It would ofcourse then need a bit more power to match its existing pace, but it would also gain proper independent rear suspension, which would be another plus.

    The diff does make a huge difference though. It span most of the way thru second, and a bit of third but unlike an open diff car where once the wheelspin started you'd be round to the limiter with one wheel spinning at maximum speed, the revs just started to float around and it kept pulling as the diff was doing its thing.

    I do suspect its very close to the limits of the drivetrain, another 50hp would probably be heading towards it being a "handful" in the dry as well as the wet.
    BIGAL HERE,,stealing the thread. I remember not many years ago when it was said amongst auto engineers, ( I believe Saab started it) that 200 hp through the front wheels was maximum and any more was ridiculous to contemplate. And this was a statement without any formal testing, just a theory. My how wrong they all were. Lets see what the future brings.!!!
    You're wrong BBD, SAAB have ALWAYS had some of the most powerful FWD cars on the market. Look at the 900t's, 9000 Aeros and 9-3HOT/Viggens. Ranging from 205BHP up to 275 as standard. Mental power FWD cars, SAAB have been into FWD cars ever since their first car (the 92B) and until GM took over had never made anything but FWD cars.

    SAAB made front double wishbone suspension commercial on production vehicles, and IMO (apart from the 205/306GTI) the 99 and 900T are one of the best handling FWD cars going for the price they are. The problem is most people who own a decent SAAB don't drive them properly, you'd be amazed at the way they put power down and hold the road amazingly well. With a DIFF and a fair old weight reduction they are incredible.

    SAAB even went to the extent of fitting the gearbox on the front of the engine, laying the engine sideways and fitting the handbrake on the front wheels to get a perfect Polar Moment.

    Don't forget SAAB are the most succesful FWD rally car in history too, more point wins than a works entered Mini ever got.

    So back in your box Al, SAAB are amazing and have done nothing but strengthen the image of FWD cars. HAHAHAHA.
    Last edited by 16Klappe; 28th February 2012 at 13:05.
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  3. #1562
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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post

    So back in your box Al, SAAB are amazing and have done nothing but strengthen the image of FWD cars. HAHAHAHA.
    Why are you looking for a fight? he never said anything bad about Saabs. Read it properly, then calm down.

    It was indeed suggested about 20 years ago that 200bhp was the limit of a FWD car, and rumour has it the figure came from Saab engineers having proudly produced their 900 turbo with about 180bhp. At the time I believe that was one of the most powerful FWD cars available.

    Al never knocked Saab at all, and he certainly didn't complain about FWD getting the power down, have you missed what we've been doing for the past year? You might have noticed we're hugely in favour of FWD.....

    Now, stop filling my build thread up with crap, or I'll have to have to have it de-cluttered.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn:1508587
    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post

    So back in your box Al, SAAB are amazing and have done nothing but strengthen the image of FWD cars. HAHAHAHA.
    Why are you looking for a fight? he never said anything bad about Saabs. Read it properly, then calm down.

    It was indeed suggested about 20 years ago that 200bhp was the limit of a FWD car, and rumour has it the figure came from Saab engineers having proudly produced their 900 turbo with about 180bhp. At the time I believe that was one of the most powerful FWD cars available.

    Al never knocked Saab at all, and he certainly didn't complain about FWD getting the power down, have you missed what we've been doing for the past year? You might have noticed we're hugely in favour of FWD.....

    Now, stop filling my build thread up with crap, or I'll have to have to have it de-cluttered.
    Saaaaaaab!

    Al's wrong though, SAAB made some of the best FWD cars going, and pushed on many technologies that are common place today. SAAB dispelled the FWD/power argument by making it work and going rallying with it.

    SAAB were all for FWD regardless of power, their rally cars were 240bhp+ and FWD whilst everyone was RWD or turning AWD.

    Where ever you got the idea that SAAB were the first to associate a power figure to FWD is wrong.
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    He never said a bad word about Saab though?? As Prawn mentioned too..Are you seriously not reading what Al said in the slightest?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    You're wrong BBD, SAAB have ALWAYS had some of the most powerful FWD cars on the market. Look at the 900t's, 9000 Aeros and 9-3HOT/Viggens. Ranging from 205BHP up to 275 as standard. Mental power FWD cars, SAAB have been into FWD cars ever since their first car (the 92B) and until GM took over had never made anything but FWD cars.

    SAAB made front double wishbone suspension commercial on production vehicles, and IMO (apart from the 205/306GTI) the 99 and 900T are one of the best handling FWD cars going for the price they are. The problem is most people who own a decent SAAB don't drive them properly, you'd be amazed at the way they put power down and hold the road amazingly well. With a DIFF and a fair old weight reduction they are incredible.

    SAAB even went to the extent of fitting the gearbox on the front of the engine, laying the engine sideways and fitting the handbrake on the front wheels to get a perfect Polar Moment.

    Don't forget SAAB are the most succesful FWD rally car in history too, more point wins than a works entered Mini ever got.

    So back in your box Al, SAAB are amazing and have done nothing but strengthen the image of FWD cars. HAHAHAHA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason.s:1508629
    He never said a bad word about Saab though?? As Prawn mentioned too..Are you seriously not reading what Al said in the slightest?
    Al said that he thought it was SAAB who were the first to put a figure on the power a FWD car could handle. Which despite being what he thought, wasn't right.

    I listed some of the many outcomes for SAABs love for FWD, some of the things they did with/for FWD and told him it wasn't right.

    Who cares if I said it in a sarcky way, if you saw the way BBD and I knock about you would understand. Al and I get on like a sarcastic house on fire, I guess that would never come across on a forum.

    Sorry for spamming your thread Prawn, but my Swedish senses were tingling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    Al said that he thought it was SAAB who were the first to put a figure on the power a FWD car could handle. Which despite being what he thought, wasn't right.

    I listed some of the many outcomes for SAABs love for FWD, some of the things they did with/for FWD and told him it wasn't right.

    Who cares if I said it in a sarcky way, if you saw the way BBD and I knock about you would understand. Al and I get on like a sarcastic house on fire, I guess that would never come across on a forum.

    Sorry for spamming your thread Prawn, but my Swedish senses were tingling.
    Hell , Who let you out early, I thought it was only Saturday mornings. You obviously haven't eaten yet. Shame you never learnt to read. When I am looking for a car or a boat the first thing I look for is beauty. If she looks good I will then find out what the performance is like. In that order. If what I am looking at has all the aesthetics of an escaped agricultural building I will looking elsewhere. Hence no Saabs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigal 1:1508950
    Quote Originally Posted by 16Klappe View Post
    Al said that he thought it was SAAB who were the first to put a figure on the power a FWD car could handle. Which despite being what he thought, wasn't right.

    I listed some of the many outcomes for SAABs love for FWD, some of the things they did with/for FWD and told him it wasn't right.

    Who cares if I said it in a sarcky way, if you saw the way BBD and I knock about you would understand. Al and I get on like a sarcastic house on fire, I guess that would never come across on a forum.

    Sorry for spamming your thread Prawn, but my Swedish senses were tingling.
    Hell , Who let you out early, I thought it was only Saturday mornings. You obviously haven't eaten yet. Shame you never learnt to read. When I am looking for a car or a boat the first thing I look for is beauty. If she looks good I will then find out what the performance is like. In that order. If what I am looking at has all the aesthetics of an escaped agricultural building I will looking elsewhere. Hence no Saabs.
    Or in your case, you combine the two in a diesel A4 Avant!

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  10. #1569
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    New sun-strip fitted:



    Drivers side wiper arm broke on removal earlier, so I've bodged a single wiper conversion using the drivers side arm on the pass side base and drivers side blade. Seems to work fairly well!

    More pics to come tomorrow!
    Last edited by aragorn; 3rd March 2012 at 23:24.
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    you need to edit your image tag mate.

    looks good. i did the same thing aswell by snaping the drivers side wiper arm, it cracked in half where i did the nut up to tight. looks pretty good with a single wiper
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    WhAt time u heading there mate as I was gonna get there first thing but they said none seats have to wait till last???
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    yea, they told me that too mate. I'll be there about half 9 and going to try and tag onto the leons when they run as it's the same car anyway!

    Have your haldex fuse pulled and ready and try and jump in early :P

    Cheers for the edit Kev, unusual for me to make that mistake! must have been the cider!
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    Ahhhh head is really hurting not sure if will be able to make it at a reasonable time, had a mental night out dressed like granny's and not got any other clothes with me lol
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    You copy-cat! :P

    I still claim rights to the first A3 with a single wiper conversion, haha! If my memory serves me correctly, I got a 26" aero blade, and cut loooooads of the bottom end off it, so the blade actually cleared a decent amount of screen, because I found it pretty pants with the normal blade on.

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    What an awesome day at AMD!

    I know there are various suggestions going round that the AMD rollers are a bit on the happy side, but I know that, so take the figure with a pinch of salt, but still, it's nice to see good numbers come up!

    We left in the pouring rain, and my new single wiper got thrown in at the deep end!



    The day started out pretty well with a getting a set of Dunlop slicks from the AMD BTCC touring car:



    Then the fun started, plenty of cars there, probably 35-40 cars on the rollers today! Around 11am, it was my turn!



    Yes, I might have gone a bit nuts with the stickers! A bit of advertising for Nick in return for excellent service and support, and partly because it just looked a bit boring all black!



    Onto the rollers it went:



    One run was done on full boost, and one on actuator pressure, then the dyno PC crashed before I got the results! ARGH.

    So, it was all repeated again:





    Very happy to see 313bhp and 282lbft with the N75 plugged in, not bad considering this is still the de-tuned map.

    Nice flames on over run too!



    Even more surprising though is how well it goes on actuator pressure only, around 12psi of boost produced 282bhp and 242lbft! Even with an optimistic dyno I was very surprised at that. No wonder it goes so well!

    I wired a switch in yesterday, so it's easily switched between actuator pressure and full boost:



    Quick pic of Andys cupra on the rollers:



    Plenty of people there!



    Heading home:





    Top day out!
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    Great pics and results tim
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    Very tasteful application of the stickers. Not overdone. Just needs the old race numbers on now to finish it off. Cant wait to drive it. Probably wont be as chuckable as my Kona King Kikapu. !!! but you cant have it all.!

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    Cheers BBD, you're going to like it!

    Scanned in the dyno plot from yesterday.

    Even if the figures are slightly inflated, the shape of the curves is bloody lovely!

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    so 291bhp @ r-tech equated to 312bhp @ AmD?

    same settings boost wise?
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    Yup, I was hoping you would show up to post your famous Dyno lottery picture Bill!

    Pretty much exactly 20bhp/20lbft up on R-tech figures on both actuator and full boost, identical settings, all N75 controlled on the full power run. I'm not using the ebc any more.

    Just one more well known set of rollers to try it on now!
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    looks that way!

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    Looks like a great day mate! Some awesome pics especially the one of the flames. I heard that AMD had happy rollers but 20bhp is being too generous?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    Yup, I was hoping you would show up to post your famous Dyno lottery picture Bill!

    Pretty much exactly 20bhp/20lbft up on R-tech figures on both actuator and full boost, identical settings, all N75 controlled on the full power run. I'm not using the ebc any more.

    Just one more well known set of rollers to try it on now!
    lol
    indeed..
    brace yourself for lower figures here

    where stock turbo k04's make >300bhp you have to wonder.. hmmmm

    maybe we will see a 300bhp k04 car here when some of the ones with high flow exhaust mani's come thru which are being done.

    285bhp max thus far I have seen from k04

    should be interesting
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    lol
    indeed..
    brace yourself for lower figures here

    where stock turbo k04's make >300bhp you have to wonder.. hmmmm

    maybe we will see a 300bhp k04 car here when some of the ones with high flow exhaust mani's come thru which are being done.

    285bhp max thus far I have seen from k04

    should be interesting
    Well I know where to go if I can't hit 300 on your rollers lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    lol
    indeed..
    brace yourself for lower figures here

    where stock turbo k04's make >300bhp you have to wonder.. hmmmm

    maybe we will see a 300bhp k04 car here when some of the ones with high flow exhaust mani's come thru which are being done.

    285bhp max thus far I have seen from k04

    should be interesting
    I got an AGU in with k04-023, relentless manifold, DP and decat, 2.5" FMIC & Pipe work, If any k04 is going to crack 300bhp on my dyno its going to be this beast...lol I am expecting 285-290bhp tops, but I will be pushing for 300hp on a few runs just to see if its actually poss. I am already at @1.2bar 260lbft 277bhp and maxed the fuel pump out, which was a bit of a pee off as I was having fun on the dyno this morning.

    IMHO I think the only way to get over 290bhp would to be boost as 26psi aim for 345lbft and have peak power around 4900-5100rpm, from what I have seen on other dyno plots.
    Pedrosousa likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R-Tech-Nick View Post
    I got an AGU in with k04-023, relentless manifold, DP and decat, 2.5" FMIC & Pipe work, If any k04 is going to crack 300bhp on my dyno its going to be this beast...lol I am expecting 285-290bhp tops, but I will be pushing for 300hp on a few runs just to see if its actually poss. I am already at @1.2bar 260lbft 277bhp and maxed the fuel pump out, which was a bit of a pee off as I was having fun on the dyno this morning.

    IMHO I think the only way to get over 290bhp would to be boost as 26psi aim for 345lbft and have peak power around 4900-5100rpm, from what I have seen on other dyno plots.
    I'm hoping that water methanol and a shed load of timing will make the difference.

    Is WMI cars something you seen much of on your rollers? Be interesting to see what the gains are from it. Maybe something for Prawn to consider in the future too
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  28. #1587
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    Quote Originally Posted by R-Tech-Nick View Post
    I got an AGU in with k04-023, relentless manifold, DP and decat, 2.5" FMIC & Pipe work, If any k04 is going to crack 300bhp on my dyno its going to be this beast...lol I am expecting 285-290bhp tops, but I will be pushing for 300hp on a few runs just to see if its actually poss. I am already at @1.2bar 260lbft 277bhp and maxed the fuel pump out, which was a bit of a pee off as I was having fun on the dyno this morning.

    IMHO I think the only way to get over 290bhp would to be boost as 26psi aim for 345lbft and have peak power around 4900-5100rpm, from what I have seen on other dyno plots.
    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    I'm hoping that water methanol and a shed load of timing will make the difference.

    Is WMI cars something you seen much of on your rollers? Be interesting to see what the gains are from it. Maybe something for Prawn to consider in the future too
    exciting stuff!
    pushing the boundaries of the ko4.
    im with westy on this, cooling and timing is where its at, not boost.

  29. #1588
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    I'm hoping that water methanol and a shed load of timing will make the difference.

    Is WMI cars something you seen much of on your rollers? Be interesting to see what the gains are from it. Maybe something for Prawn to consider in the future too
    Is that "GAME ON!"........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    I'm hoping that water methanol and a shed load of timing will make the difference.

    Is WMI cars something you seen much of on your rollers? Be interesting to see what the gains are from it. Maybe something for Prawn to consider in the future too
    Only used water meth on ME7.5 setup and with the timing corrections based on the AIT there was a huge window to run more timing, my own AUM ran a home brew k04-001 with 023 cold side and made 299hp 334lbft with a stock ported manifold, I ran the car with NOS to little under 400bhp with the knock control routine turned off just for the drag strip, It was fine until the WMI failed and I melted my no3 pistion going over the finish line at santa pod during a 12.6s run...lol This was trial and error testing to see the limits of what it could do.

    So yer I have done a lost of testing with WMI advantages based on timing advance and lean burn 13:1 high power maps, keeping fuel lean for best power and torque and using just 100% water for cooling. Most of my testing has been with sprint and track cars, I have not do much work yet with WMI combine with road going stage2 mapping setup nor much EGT testing, just combustion efficiency and optimised power.
    Pedrosousa likes this.

  31. #1590
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    I've tested my car with knock control off.... It's a mad tune!!!
    Talking about the 800hp by 0-400 S3 : "Is it true that everytime you take this car down the strip, the earths rotation slows by 0.1 % ??"

  32. #1591
    Prawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    lol
    indeed..
    brace yourself for lower figures here

    where stock turbo k04's make >300bhp you have to wonder.. hmmmm


    should be interesting
    I welcome the challenge Bill! and I'm sure many people would love to see how you rollers compare to Nicks as well!

    I'm fairly busy for the next few weeks, I assume you're not at the unit sundays? I'm free on Sunday morning

    If you're free I'd love to pop over!
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  33. #1592
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    Have to say prawn took me out on sunday in the beast and i absolutely loved it, i have to say i do miss front wheel drive a wee bit (i'm going to shot for saying that) it makes the drive/ride so much more interesting and think this is why i'm hunting for more out of the S3 because miss the driver involvement of having to fight the car as such
    But like i was saying this is an amazing car was even starting to spin above 80+ although he did have his road tyres on which he seemed to have kindly forgotton as trying to stop for a round about from a reasonably high speed and turning round and saying oops not stopping (mild squeeky bum moment for myself lol) although it wasn't dangerous or anything like that and ended up stopping with plenty of room to spare just gave you that little moment of increased adreniline
    Will definately still have to come round a track with you at some point as can only imagine how this thing goes round corners in the hands of a capable driver, keep up the good work mate just need some rods and that mental a3 will just border over insane
    Last edited by StaceyS3; 6th March 2012 at 10:36.
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  34. #1593
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    I welcome the challenge Bill! and I'm sure many people would love to see how you rollers compare to Nicks as well!

    I'm fairly busy for the next few weeks, I assume you're not at the unit sundays? I'm free on Sunday morning

    If you're free I'd love to pop over!
    Bill is there Sundays (as am I)... not sure what the big man has planned though...

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  35. #1594
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    Quote Originally Posted by StaceyS3 View Post
    Have to say prawn took me out on sunday in the beast and i absolutely loved it, keep up the good work mate just need some rods and that mental a3 will just border over insane
    Cheers Stacey, I'm glad you liked it! Makes it all seem worth while when other people enjoy it as much as I do. Was a funny moment braking for that roundabout :P It wasn't wet when we arrived, and the road tyres just don't pull up like the track tyres will.

    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    Bill is there Sundays (as am I)... not sure what the big man has planned though...

    <tuffty/>
    Cheers PT, I'll drop him a PM now. Tori is working saturday night, so will be asleep half of sunday so Sunday morning would be ideal if Bills about, after that it'll probably be a few weeks until I can come up, and I'd like to run it at Bills on the same wheels / tyres even, as I know hard road tyres and soft track tyres can change readings.
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    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  36. #1595
    www.badger5.co.uk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    I welcome the challenge Bill! and I'm sure many people would love to see how you rollers compare to Nicks as well!

    I'm fairly busy for the next few weeks, I assume you're not at the unit sundays? I'm free on Sunday morning

    If you're free I'd love to pop over!
    yarp.. your inbox is full
    sunday is ok btw
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  37. #1596
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    thought i saw you today Prawn. lowered black A3 giving it the beans round the viables roundabout heading towards the dual carriageway by morrisons. was disappointed when i caught up as it didn't have your orange decals on
    Audi A3 8L 1.8T breaking.
    front bumper, impact bar, slam panel, full engine and loom sold.
    everything else for sale.

  38. #1597
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay1601 View Post
    thought i saw you today Prawn. lowered black A3 giving it the beans round the viables roundabout heading towards the dual carriageway by morrisons. was disappointed when i caught up as it didn't have your orange decals on
    Should of guessed it wasn't him by the fact that you caught up!
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  39. #1598
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedrosousa View Post
    I've tested my car with knock control off.... It's a mad tune!!!

    lol The Me7.5 1.8T is night and day with knock intervantion switched off and tuned by ear... Just a shame I would not trust it off on a customers cars all year around, but I know all my track spec maps are going out with knock off if they have WMI.

  40. #1599
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    Quote Originally Posted by R-Tech-Nick View Post
    lol The Me7.5 1.8T is night and day with knock intervantion switched off and tuned by ear... Just a shame I would not trust it off on a customers cars all year around, but I know all my track spec maps are going out with knock off if they have WMI.
    I've done it setting the TMKR and TMKRA higher just to test...And it works, I'll test it in the dyno when I can to see the results...
    My problem is with LAMFA or tuning fuel with KFLBTS the car stays always lean, I have to check the fuel pump to see if it's working normally.
    Talking about the 800hp by 0-400 S3 : "Is it true that everytime you take this car down the strip, the earths rotation slows by 0.1 % ??"

  41. #1600
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedrosousa View Post
    I've done it setting the TMKR and TMKRA higher just to test...And it works, I'll test it in the dyno when I can to see the results...
    My problem is with LAMFA or tuning fuel with KFLBTS the car stays always lean, I have to check the fuel pump to see if it's working normally.
    I would imagine at this point its probably worth starting your own thread to discuss this rather than diluting Prawns with a discussion about tuning an ECU he doesn't have

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

 

 

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