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Thread: Prawn and BigAls A3 Track Car

  1. #921
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    they came up at a really good price Paul, and we DO need some road wheels to stop wearing out the RS-Rs, so it seemed like a sensible choice

    Now, time to stop messing about with wheels (have 4 sets now) and make steps to get this turbo on!
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    Why why why didnt I buy the 340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy P View Post
    Bit of a forum junkie like myself then? :P
    Just a touch lol.

    Love the 340, saw the pics of that on DW too :D

    So torn with what i want to do, S40 but then issues i mentioned further up with tuning although reading Marks? thread on pistonheads it seems SW autos know a thing about S40 tuning getting over 300 for him and then his rods snapping lol. Would love an 850 T5 but that huge 70litre tank causes issues for me with the cost of sticking 99 in that and never getting much mileage from it lol. Then a Saab 93 Aero is appealing from doing reading up on tuning. So simple to get around 270 without much at all. Easier on the tuning side than the Volvo`s with Maptun/Neo Bro`s and Abbotts but just not that cheap. Or keep the Audi and struggle with tuning again lol.

    Anyway back to the A3 lol.

    Quite a collection of wheels you`re building up! lol. Atleast when you come to sell some of them you`ll get a decent lump sum back to throw at the car. Or more wheels!

    Cactus green 8L S3 - B5 TIP + Jetex, Revised 007p, R32 rear ARB, AP Coilovers, Compbrake rear arms, Full Powerflexed dogbone.

  5. #924
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    Jardo, you didn't buy it because you're the J word.

    Jason, I've had dealings with SW and I wouldn't use them again. A few years back there was an incident that went legal (I was partly involved) and any reputation they had was quickly destroyed.

    Tuning wise, it depends how far you want to take it. I've had virtually every set up from a standard 160hp 2.0T up to 400+hp, standard turbos, hybrids, big cossie turbos, GT turbos, ecu remaps and full standalone ecu.

    Just to let you know, a very good friend of mine in croatia ran circa 520hp and over 600nm on a stock 1855cc engine (Phase 1 T4) with a self tuned VEMS ecu whereas I had mine MTE mapped, made 300hp 340lbsft and bent rods in less than 24hrs. Its ALL in the tuning...
    I do actually own an Audi...

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    Last edited by 16Klappe; 2nd November 2011 at 12:35.
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  7. #926
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy P View Post
    Jardo, you didn't buy it because you're the J word.

    Jason, I've had dealings with SW and I wouldn't use them again. A few years back there was an incident that went legal (I was partly involved) and any reputation they had was quickly destroyed.

    Tuning wise, it depends how far you want to take it. I've had virtually every set up from a standard 160hp 2.0T up to 400+hp, standard turbos, hybrids, big cossie turbos, GT turbos, ecu remaps and full standalone ecu.

    Just to let you know, a very good friend of mine in croatia ran circa 520hp and over 600nm on a stock 1855cc engine (Phase 1 T4) with a self tuned VEMS ecu whereas I had mine MTE mapped, made 300hp 340lbsft and bent rods in less than 24hrs. Its ALL in the tuning...
    It is indeed and its finding that right person to tune it is hard to find. I havent been too far into the depths of the s40 forums but it seems there arent many in this country that can do a good job once it comes to anything other than a stage 1 map. Step foot outside of the UK and theres plenty of options..Bit like the A4

    Cactus green 8L S3 - B5 TIP + Jetex, Revised 007p, R32 rear ARB, AP Coilovers, Compbrake rear arms, Full Powerflexed dogbone.

  8. #927
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    Doesnt the S40 use ME7? The later T5's certainly do.

    IMHO, while the A4 appears to have better tuning options over in the USA, its all ****ey off the shelf generic tunes. No-one over there properly maps the cars either. Its just that there are more ****ey tunes available for a wider range of options than here in the UK.

    There are most definately people in the UK that can tune M3.8 perfectly well. Rich at RTech manages just fine, and MRC claim to be able to as well although they made a bit of an arse of Marks car. You just need to find the right people.
    Last edited by aragorn; 2nd November 2011 at 12:55.

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  9. #928
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    The US tuning market seems really strange, all their maps seem to be tailored to an injector size, and I'm guessing they'll work out the rest from airflow and/or wideband correction.

    Seems dodgy to me!

    If anyone has a 3'' ko4 downpipe for sale then let me know, we only need that and a VR6 MAF to get things started.
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  10. #929
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    Quote Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
    Doesnt the S40 use ME7? The later T5's certainly do.

    IMHO, while the A4 appears to have better tuning options over in the USA, its all ****ey off the shelf generic tunes. No-one over there properly maps the cars either. Its just that there are more ****ey tunes available for a wider range of options than here in the UK.

    There are most definately people in the UK that can tune M3.8 perfectly well. Rich at RTech manages just fine, and MRC claim to be able to as well although they made a bit of an arse of Marks car. You just need to find the right people.
    T4`s need to be chipped as far as i`ve read on the forums. Much like the A4

    Rtech will be my port of call i think. Agreed the American way of tuning these is very strange. Even on big turbo builds its all generic chips suited to injector size and they live with that. Or they just spend a fortune on 034 standalone setups but for the money...f-that lol

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  11. #930
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    The US tuning market seems really strange, all their maps seem to be tailored to an injector size, and I'm guessing they'll work out the rest from airflow and/or wideband correction.

    Seems dodgy to me!

    If anyone has a 3'' ko4 downpipe for sale then let me know, we only need that and a VR6 MAF to get things started.
    Would you be interested in a standard k04 downpipe? That way you can cut the flange off and fabricate it to your current downpipe?

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    Those Rota's work well.
    Audi A3 1.8T AUM Sport with more doors.

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    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    The US tuning market seems really strange, all their maps seem to be tailored to an injector size, and I'm guessing they'll work out the rest from airflow and/or wideband correction.

    Seems dodgy to me!

    If anyone has a 3'' ko4 downpipe for sale then let me know, we only need that and a VR6 MAF to get things started.
    TBH thats the beauty of an airflow meter. For the most part, the amount of fuel required for a particular amount of air is fixed.

    The problem from my POV is while the airflow/fuelling for a given MAF/Injector combo will more or less fit a few different turbos, ignition timing and boost PID values certainly wont. As a result these values cant be in any way optimised as they're going to have to be safe enough for the quickest spooling turbo that might be used with that particular chip, and so will add to the lag experienced with a larger turbo. So its always just a huge compromise.

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  14. #933
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    I see what you mean Kev, I was wondering how ignition could be optimised on such maps, surely part throttle economy and response has to suffer as well due to differences in compressor maps?

    I know the 3d mapping on the mini, based on load values, helped no end with part throttle economy and power
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  15. #934
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    Yep. Its going to suffer everywhere to be honest.

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  16. #935
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    Prawn you b***h, you bought those wheels off the classifieds didnt you, i was late emailing the kid back and he emailed saying they were sold, gutted doesnt come close haha.
    Driving the most secretive S3 on ASN

  17. #936
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dani_B19 View Post
    Prawn you b***h, you bought those wheels off the classifieds didnt you, i was late emailing the kid back and he emailed saying they were sold, gutted doesnt come close haha.
    The early bird Dan....the early bird,,,

  18. #937
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    Didn't even see them on here dan! They were on ukmkivs for a week, but clearly not scene enough for the golf boys!

    I came across them on Northloop, PM'd tabs, and paid for them a few hours later!

    Gotta jump on a bargain :D

    Sorry dude, they are lovely wheels!
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  19. #938
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    ARGH.

    my DS3000's on the front have worn out already!

    I guess I wasn't ready for quite how quickly they would wear, 2 Ring trips, 2 trackdays, and around 4000 road miles, and they're on the backings already!

    Epic stopping power is expensive folks

    Biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiillllllllllllllllllllll........... you can expect a phone call soon to order some more
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  20. #939
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    ARGH.

    my DS3000's on the front have worn out already!

    I guess I wasn't ready for quite how quickly they would wear, 2 Ring trips, 2 trackdays, and around 4000 road miles, and they're on the backings already!

    Epic stopping power is expensive folks

    Biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiillllllllllllllllllllll........... you can expect a phone call soon to order some more
    Managed to get my DS2500's to last 20k... they are fairly low now and will be replaced with DS3000's methinks... I am not as hard on brakes as you though lol ;P

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    do those pads eat brake discs too? or they ok on good branded discs?

  22. #941
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    I am about half way through my 330's atm but I then I am not so hard on my brakes... I am expecting 30k out of my discs at least based on current wear

    I suspect Nick's will be a tad different

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  23. #942
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    Well, the pads are totally gone, from a full pad down to the backing in just 4k miles, BUT, it's worth pointing out that it's only ever thrashed to death, never driven around normally, and track miles are HAAAAAARD on brakes.

    Interestingly though, despite the pads being gone, there is no measurable lip on the discs yet AT ALL, so I fully expect the discs to last at least another 2 years, and I expect we will go through a set of pads every 9 months or so.

    Meh. that's the choice you make I guess, I'm certainly not about to go for a harder pad to increase pad life, at the cost of braking power. The stopping power on DS3000's is simply mind blowing
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  24. #943
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    I might try them next time

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  25. #944
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    they're incredible mate, truly astonishingly good, and miles better than DS2500's.

    I'm sure you'd get 10k+ from them on a road car too
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  26. #945
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    Iv had about 10k out of mine and still loads of life left in them. Although I tend not to use brakes. People did say they eat through discs but I have noticed any excessive wear either
    57 A3 2.0 TDI Sportback (140)

  27. #946
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    yea, your DS3000's on 312's were what made me want them in the brembos Jimbo, I've never known a set of 312's pull up like yours do!

    I've heard people report disc wear with Ds2500's too, but I've got no lip at all on mine, despite the absolute roasting they get every time it's used.

    I'd safely wager that my brakes get used harder than anyone would on a road car. They get hot to the point where you can burn your hand on the outter edge of the wheel rim! smoke off all 4 corners stylee!
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  28. #947
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    One thing to consider here, is that brake pads have two modes of operation.

    Abrasive and adherent.

    Adherent mode is what gives you the proper stopping power, and its a molecular level bonding between the pad and disk.

    Abrasive mode is as you would expect simple friction between the two components.

    You want a pad to be mainly adherent in its operation, but its temperature dependant. A road compound will become adherent at much lower temperatures than a track pad.

    Using a dedicated track pad like the DS3000 on the road at normal road operating conditions will mean its in abrasive mode nearly all the time, as it simply never gets hot enough to move to the desired adherent mode. And its this abrasive operation that eats into disks.

    This is almost certainly why your DS3000's that have been spanked hard have exhibited very little disk wear, as they'll always have been operating in adherent mode. Put them on a road car and pootle to work and back for 10k and the results will be very different.

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  29. #948
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    Very interesting stuff! Thanks for that Kev, every day is a school day!

    that makes perfect sense though. Still a shame they wear out so bloody fast! although if I manage to get 4 sets of pads 1 one set of discs (I reckon that's where I'm heading at the moment) then I guess disc cost is greatly reduced from the 2pads / 1 disc I was expecting to consume.
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  30. #949
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    yea, your DS3000's on 312's were what made me want them in the brembos Jimbo, I've never known a set of 312's pull up like yours do!

    I've heard people report disc wear with Ds2500's too, but I've got no lip at all on mine, despite the absolute roasting they get every time it's used.

    I'd safely wager that my brakes get used harder than anyone would on a road car. They get hot to the point where you can burn your hand on the outter edge of the wheel rim! smoke off all 4 corners stylee!
    yep they still hurt your head when braking
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    Quote Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
    One thing to consider here, is that brake pads have two modes of operation.

    Abrasive and adherent.

    Adherent mode is what gives you the proper stopping power, and its a molecular level bonding between the pad and disk.

    Abrasive mode is as you would expect simple friction between the two components.

    You want a pad to be mainly adherent in its operation, but its temperature dependant. A road compound will become adherent at much lower temperatures than a track pad.

    Using a dedicated track pad like the DS3000 on the road at normal road operating conditions will mean its in abrasive mode nearly all the time, as it simply never gets hot enough to move to the desired adherent mode. And its this abrasive operation that eats into disks.

    This is almost certainly why your DS3000's that have been spanked hard have exhibited very little disk wear, as they'll always have been operating in adherent mode. Put them on a road car and pootle to work and back for 10k and the results will be very different.
    Haha... and people buy Upgraded pads because they drive them hard I hope.. else why buy them over stock ones?
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  32. #951
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    Sorry I didn't order the pads yesterday like I said I would Bill, had a manic day!

    Will call up and get them ordered next week!
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  33. #952
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    Here's a completely random and mildly pointless post with some pictures:

    Miserable weather today, I can't drive it because the front pads are on the metal, and I can't fit my spare pads until the new ones arrive, because I left the locking wheel nut key at a mates! Damn.

    So instead, I cleaned the wheels:







    Then decided to clean the wheels on the daily as well:



    The A3 fleet:

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  34. #953
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    Bob you never got back to me, can I go to your dads tomorrow and steal the plastic trim off the lower rear bumper of actual diesel A3 as well as the plastic cover for the inside of the boot lid?

    Also, fancy swapping exhausts?
    I quite often say I'm going to do things.

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  35. #954
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    Loving your daily dude!
    Audi A3 1.8T AUM Sport with more doors.

  36. #955
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    cheers dude, she's not too bad. Still goes round the ring in sub 9 minutes!

    Should look a bit different when the winters go on though, 205/45's with a mild stretch onto my ronal TT rims in black, spaced 20mm rear and 16mm front, or 25r 20f if that's not fat enough!

    The funniest thing though, is that at 224bhp, the daily is actually faster than the track car!

    Speaking of the track car, I can't wait to get these superT rims, I think I'm going to spray them bronze too, I love the colour that much!

    Although around bends it doesn't stand a chance, even though it's fairly well sorted itself
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    You have too many cars and rims be the sound of it lol. Are you still on for the hybrid turbo? and at the back of your mind do you think that 300hp may upset the handling?
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    Hi Prawn it's Paul from SCN, I've got the LCR with gear box troubles. I've enjoyed reading through your build thread. It's inspiring me to get out on track. Also maybe I do need a proper rear strut brace LOL.

  39. #958
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    Quote Originally Posted by moredoor View Post
    You have too many cars and rims be the sound of it lol. Are you still on for the hybrid turbo? and at the back of your mind do you think that 300hp may upset the handling?
    Too many rims - yes. Too many cars? Possibly

    I really don't think 300bhp is going to upset the handling at all, at the moment, driving the car, you can feel that the capability of the chassis FAR exceeds the power it can deliver, it just feels like you're waiting for the punch the whole time, and it never comes!

    I think if anything, I'll be able to corner faster with more power. Currently you sometimes feel that you've not got enough forward momentum to overcome the sideways forces in a corner, so the diff isn't working as well as it could.

    Hopefully, with the low boost we're going to run, it should still be fairly smooth, and the extra revs are definitely going to help make up for a short fall in the gearing. Currently the usable 'power band' on track so to speak is about 4-6k, so only a 2k rpm window. With the hybrid, useable power should be from 4-7.5k, so almost double the available rev range, meaning corners that were too fast for second but too slow for 3rd will now be at the top end of second, and then when it does get into 3rd, it should be right on song again!

    Quote Originally Posted by ReDBull View Post
    Hi Prawn it's Paul from SCN, I've got the LCR with gear box troubles. I've enjoyed reading through your build thread. It's inspiring me to get out on track. Also maybe I do need a proper rear strut brace LOL.
    Cheers Paul, can't believe you've read the whole thing! Chassis bracing is well worth while, but not with those poxy things that the whole of SCN seem to use. if you look at the scientific principles, of those, they do nothing what so ever on the rear!
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  40. #959
    Westy's Avatar
    Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    Do you think that 300bhp will upset the drive shafts.......... even more?! :D
    8P A3 TDI - 220bhp - 335lbft
    A3 Maintenance Thread
    Bye bye S3 you will be missed.
    S3 Build Thread







  41. #960
    Prawn's Avatar
    My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    hahaha. Shhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

    But yes. I think 300bhp might upset the driveshafts a tad!

    I'll see how they go, but it becomes an issue, I'll look into changing the output flanges to the newer style 108mm flanges that the S3/facelift A3 runs. I've got that style on the daily, and they seem to be FAR more reliable than mine.

    my 100mm flanged CV's are exactly the same as fitted to the mk2 golf gti back in the 80's! that's how little had changed when they first developed the 8L....
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

 

 

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