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Thread: Prawn and BigAls A3 Track Car

  1. #4321
    RIP S3dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    based on PT's numbers, it would suggest that my 850 peak seen so far relates to ~950 pre turbine temp.

    Given that it's only at 1 bar of boost, has feck loads of ignition advance and pulls zero timing at all, I'm inclined to believe that the +100 degree rule doesn't always apply with great accuracy.

    I'm not saying it won't run hot on the EGT's, st2+ tfsi's are known to run high EGT's. I think there's definitely some testing to be done to see where it's happiest.

    Given that it's only at 1 bar of boost, has feck loads of ignition advance and pulls zero timing at all, I'm inclined to believe that the +100 degree rule doesn't always apply with great accuracy.
    Unless comparitive measurements taken in turbos inlet vs outlet thats anyones guess currently.
    We know the oe K04-023 units egt location and temps and the factorys 920c "component protection" number. We also know they glow well at this temp.. lol..

    I'm not saying it won't run hot on the EGT's, st2+ tfsi's are known to run high EGT's. I think there's definitely some testing to be done to see where it's happiest.
    Is there any actual data for tfsi egt's measured?

    A good question to see what's deemed acceptable... and also what manifold back pressures we see also....
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  3. #4322
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    Does the TFSI unit use an egt probe? its not on the turbo/mani..
    must use the o2 sensor?

  4. #4323
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    TFSI is all modelled EGT

    Id imagine they had an EGT probe in there at some stage and just compared those EGTS with what was being recorded on the Lambda and modelled it from there.. Best guess and all that..

    I think all the probe in this setup will do is aid the tuning to see when EGTS get too high, Hopefully more boost will be able to be run over the old K04 hybrid without shooting egts through the roof...

    I think this Gauge also has a 5+ output that can be triggered when the alarm is set, so you could in theory wire in a relay into the N75 and that would trigger actuator only pressure if the alarm sent off.

  5. #4324
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    without knowing what a tfsi does as "normal" its at best, guess work, and only egt equipped cars we know from logging are factory k04-023 in the main, and those who log their own development hacks like me.
    no baseline..

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  6. #4325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    The EGT display seems good to me, Dan tested his and it read 102-103 in boiling water, mine shows very similar to ambient temp with igntion on before starting it up, then rises steadily once you fire it up. it refreshes 4 times per second, and has a load of sensor input types, you select the sensor type and units and away you go!

    it also has an LED alarm that's based on peak values and time above a threshold, and an output to wire it up to an external LED or buzzer if you were that way inclined.

    Just got off the phone to Ben at R-tech. Booked in for September 5th for a full days play time!
    I'll see your car there I'm booked in for a mine to be stage 2 mapped on the 6th!

  7. #4326
    Prawn's Avatar
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    You'll see me before that Paul, arn't you popping in to say hello tomorrow?
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    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

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  8. #4327
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    I certainly am, looking forward to it!

  9. #4328
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    Quote Originally Posted by s3dave View Post
    Does the TFSI unit use an egt probe? its not on the turbo/mani..
    must use the o2 sensor?
    no mate.. its "modelled" and calculated.....
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  10. #4329
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    Long day, much fun, 410 miles covered in the track car.

    Will do a write up about the Sprint tomorrow, but for now, here's a little vid, pulling well in the cold fresh air 14psi, no WMI active here, it was empty. Blue lights that appear is the glow from the shift light.



    TFSI K04-064 1.8T - YouTube
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

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  11. #4330
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    Bloody hell that thing shifts!! I might come see you when your at R-tech nick!
    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    its either mapped or broken...

  12. #4331
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    Unless comparitive measurements taken in turbos inlet vs outlet thats anyones guess currently.
    We know the oe K04-023 units egt location and temps and the factorys 920c "component protection" number. We also know they glow well at this temp.. lol..


    Is there any actual data for tfsi egt's measured?

    A good question to see what's deemed acceptable... and also what manifold back pressures we see also....
    There may be some data over on VAGOC,but there have certainly been a few cars where the protection has cut in,inferring that the temps(as calculated and not measured) did exceed the sfaety limits,causing the ECU to pull back.

    This also seems to apply to some of the TT-RS engines,and the tuning solution on stock turbos has always been to run more fuel and pull back on the timing etc to cover this.

    Exact figures seem hard to find,from what I've seen myself when looking around,as very few if any have a proper EGT probe,and everyone seems to go on the calculated values,when trouble is encountered.

    The companies running BT conversions on these cars are very cagey about publishing data,and clearly that doesn't help people looking for information.

  13. #4332
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    What sensor is used to "calculate" the egt temp. The k04-023 on the 1.8T measures the exhaust temp post cat to verify efficiency range. Logic would say its the secondary lambda probe that does this. Is it a case that as well as oxygen content the sensor has a simple temp element which offers a mV output according to temp...maybe the Lambda heating circuit is used. If a lambda probe can offer temp readings then why is the lambda probe in the downpipe not used for egt function or is this whats implied by calculation.?

  14. #4333
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    Quote Originally Posted by wild willy View Post
    What sensor is used to "calculate" the egt temp. The k04-023 on the 1.8T measures the exhaust temp post cat to verify efficiency range. Logic would say its the secondary lambda probe that does this. Is it a case that as well as oxygen content the sensor has a simple temp element which offers a mV output according to temp...maybe the Lambda heating circuit is used. If a lambda probe can offer temp readings then why is the lambda probe in the downpipe not used for egt function or is this whats implied by calculation.?
    Yes post turbo lambda is used as the modelling sensor. I guess it knows how much it needs to heat the lambda probe and that voltage/resistance can then be modelled against what was tested in the factory. They then stock that through a map and a guesstimate egt figure comes out. What it won't account for is bad lambda sensors, larger ID pipes. Etc etc.

  15. #4334
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    Remember this is all on a 180 or 210 BHP as it left the factory of yes I'm ok or f*** it's hot dump fuel! Not refined or accurate just belt and braces safety

  16. #4335
    Prawn's Avatar
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    So, yesterday Dad and I entered a little low key Sprint event at Curborough. It was great fun!

    I set off from home at 6am, and met Dad near Worcester, this was to be the first long trip on the new setup, so everything was crossed!



    We passed JoJo country on the way up. Sadly, it was 9am, so Jo wasn't open for the free Chicken fried rice he had promised me



    We arrived at Curborough, all very chilled out. it was a very informal day, but enjoyable





    The morning was spent doing practise runs, then the afternoon runs were timed.

    First timed run out in the morning was just 0.2s off the class record. The class we'd been put in was 'Road legal over 2.0' (due to the turbo) A good start.

    Then it rained a lot. Dad didn't want to take it out in the wet, not being familiar with the car, so I just went out and messed around a lot.

    In the wet:



    Curborough Sprint Aug 13 - Audi A3 in the wet - YouTube

    And then mildly moist:



    Curborough Sprint Aug 13 - A3 in the damp. - YouTube

    I won't lie, I had a moment in that one! We've discovered that the check valve on the servo line is leaking slightly, and for the first few tenths of a second after boost there is no vacuum assistance to the servo, so a quick squirt of powered followed by a left foot brake saw me find the brake pedal ROCK solid with no stopping power at all! I grabbed the handbrake at the last last second to get the back end to drop round, and just kept my foot planted, crisis avoided!

    Later on it dried up, and I did a 1:25.9, which was fastest in class on the day by 5s, and broke the previous fastest time they'd had in the class by 2.0s as well, which was pretty cool. we were 3rd over all on the day behind a Caterham R500 and a bike engined MK Indy regular.

    After that, I decided I'd had enough, and as it was drying, Dad had a few more runs.



    Despite having only 2 runs in the morning, Dads 3rd run in the afternoon was a 1:31.8, good enough for 3rd in class and 5th fastest over all on the day, so bloody good going, considering he had me on board too.



    YouTube

    We decided to send dad out alone to get a better time.

    Then got a bit carried away:



    I'm sure there was a corner here



    Really good fun day

    Just to make things a tiny bit cooler still, after the fun of Mum doing a lap of the Ring in the car last summer, here's a pic of my gran, aged 93, who quite easily jumped into the drivers seat, and was gutted to find she couldn't reach the pedals, or the gear lever!



    Coolest grandma ever
    AJC, s3dave, superkarl and 4 others like this.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  17. #4336
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    Gran in a reasonably modified car...

    Top Gear needs this...

  18. #4337
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    Her choice of transport for shopping is an Ultima GTR because she can reach the pedals and it's a paddle shift.
    Prawn, 16Klappe and StaceyS3 like this.

  19. #4338
    nanananananananan BATMAN

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    i really enjoyed those vids nick you really throw the car so easily around those corners looks very comfortable

    My rides thread : http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-f...t-journey.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox1 View Post
    Healthy??? no,no,noooo

    Mine is healthy


    yours is on steriods!!!

  20. #4339
    Prawn's Avatar
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    Cheers Miggles, it's very chuckable, and at low speeds so easy to catch when it does slide, good fun
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  21. #4340
    nanananananananan BATMAN

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    yeah i saw that on the right hander it came out and you pulled it back like a boss

    My rides thread : http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-f...t-journey.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox1 View Post
    Healthy??? no,no,noooo

    Mine is healthy


    yours is on steriods!!!

  22. #4341
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    It corners amazingly flat.... great vids
    1999 A3 Quattro 1.8T Pics >>HERE
    2002 A4 Avant quattro 1.9 TDi

  23. #4342
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    few pics I found:









    Pedrosousa likes this.
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    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

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  24. #4343
    nanananananananan BATMAN

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    Sexy pics!!!!

    What tyres were used on the wet dude?

    My rides thread : http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-f...t-journey.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox1 View Post
    Healthy??? no,no,noooo

    Mine is healthy


    yours is on steriods!!!

  25. #4344
    Prawn's Avatar
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    Same as the dry mate, P-zero Corsas that we drove there on
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

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  26. #4345
    nanananananananan BATMAN

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    Ooo ok was just wondering how you still had so much traction even in the wet

    My rides thread : http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-f...t-journey.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox1 View Post
    Healthy??? no,no,noooo

    Mine is healthy


    yours is on steriods!!!

  27. #4346
    Prawn's Avatar
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    I didn't was slippery as anything.

    It was actually really enjoyable doing the runs in the wet though, on the road, you can't push on in the wet really, as it's just not safe or sensible to be sliding around lots on the public roads. On a trackday, you tend to be reasonably careful because of the higher speeds involved.

    at curby, low speed, low grip, and only 1 car on track at a time you could be a bit more adventureous
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

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  28. #4347
    nanananananananan BATMAN

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    Well dude must say considering you were on semis and in the wet it looked very smooth and predictable very impressed!

    My rides thread : http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-f...t-journey.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox1 View Post
    Healthy??? no,no,noooo

    Mine is healthy


    yours is on steriods!!!

  29. #4348
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    MAN OF STEEL

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    will we see you at goodwood next year gunning for the record?

    also, there isnt one pic imo where the wing looks out of place. Really looks purposeful
    Last edited by superkarl; 16th August 2013 at 10:40.

  30. #4349
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    I think this is a compliment. I shall definidely take it as one cheers dude.

    Going to start looking at the splitter tomorrow I think, need to get the materials, and make a start looking at how I'm going to do it, making brackets etc
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

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  31. #4350
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    I just realised my wing comment didnt make sense lol. edited.
    yes, both were compliments, especially the times and doing so well afterall. It shows how comfortable you are with the car. Its obv well setup and just right power wise to be chuckable and quick.

  32. #4351
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    I fitted the N75 wiring plug tonight.

    My god that's tricky to reach! Won't be doing that again in a hurry!

    Will finish routing it tomorrow, and hooking up my switch again so it can be turned on / off from in-car.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  33. #4352
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    Hi Prawn , sorry to change the subject but this thread had nearly hit 200,000 views you've got to be happy with that , a really epic build aswell!
    2000 A3 1.8t sport AUM

    18 BBS LM , coilovers , strut brace , poly bushed f/end , S3 front discs , S3 rear lights , wrapped roof , face lift front lights , Forge tip , cone filter & heat shield , forge 007 DV , DV relocation kit , n249 bypass , n112 removal, SAI removal , scorpion back box , ECS shallow sump , ECS single mass clutch conversion.

  34. #4353
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    Prawn,take some pics of how you wire up the on off switch for the n75.would be really handy to have
    Word!!!

    My A3/Martys Golf would smash that, and this guys £7000 GT9743 supercharged love machine.

  35. #4354
    nanananananananan BATMAN

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    I don't know if the n75 switch would work on the newer ecu's it would throw it into limp mode would it not?

    My rides thread : http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-f...t-journey.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox1 View Post
    Healthy??? no,no,noooo

    Mine is healthy


    yours is on steriods!!!

  36. #4355
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    works perfectly Miggz, done it on several cars.

    Marty, it's too simple man. Cut one of the wires (I chose the earth - yellow/black), fit a switch. done.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

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  37. #4356
    nanananananananan BATMAN

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    works perfectly Miggz, done it on several cars.

    Marty, it's too simple man. Cut one of the wires (I chose the earth - yellow/black), fit a switch. done.
    O ok never knew that hey always thought it would throw it into limp mode then would have to erase code on vagcom

    My rides thread : http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-f...t-journey.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox1 View Post
    Healthy??? no,no,noooo

    Mine is healthy


    yours is on steriods!!!

  38. #4357
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    Throw an N75 circuit open code, but this does no harm and causes no issues. no CEL or anything at all. Drives perfectly, just with less power, which is nice sometimes. Much smoother!
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  39. #4358
    nanananananananan BATMAN

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    Throw an N75 circuit open code, but this does no harm and causes no issues. no CEL or anything at all. Drives perfectly, just with less power, which is nice sometimes. Much smoother!
    Ok Mr Nickelsworth if you say it won't cause harm then I will do this!

    My rides thread : http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-f...t-journey.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox1 View Post
    Healthy??? no,no,noooo

    Mine is healthy


    yours is on steriods!!!

  40. #4359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    works perfectly Miggz, done it on several cars.

    Marty, it's too simple man. Cut one of the wires (I chose the earth - yellow/black), fit a switch. done.
    Thanks Nick,just wanted to be sure before i mess it all up
    Word!!!

    My A3/Martys Golf would smash that, and this guys £7000 GT9743 supercharged love machine.

  41. #4360
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    Prawn pal this sounds a good way just to put power instead of unplugging the n75 I take it.

    good for round town and when the car goes into garage and someone using it haha
    350bhp & 316ftlb BBT new k16 7+7 blade hybrid turbo, Welly cooler, jetex filter, relentless ported v3 manifold 3" downpipe & de-cat, liquid gauge, r32 rear arb, AGU ported and polished Head, 550cc injectors, kw v2 Coilovers, s3dave tie bars & heat sheild, milltek cat back, I.E forged rods, brembos, inline fuel pump, v3 badger 5 tip, devils own WMI kit, AGU pistons, rear grooved discs & brembo pads, ds2500 pads & EBC ultimax disc, stack boost gauge

 

 

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