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Thread: Are roll centre correctors available for the A3/S3/TT

  1. #1
    Andrew@A.L.D's Avatar
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    Are roll centre correctors available for the A3/S3/TT

    Also are all Audi A3/S3/TT have the same front wishbones and ball joints?

    If people don't know what roll centre correctors are then read here

    Kseries-tech.com • View topic - Roll Center Correction
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    s3dave's Avatar
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    Not sure they are available for evos...etc, it would be interesting to feel the difference
    i suppose something could be fabricated for the 3 studded ball joint?, would you def feel the difference
    Last edited by s3dave; 14th December 2010 at 17:59.

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    Andrew@A.L.D's Avatar
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    I'm asking as i'm going to machine some myself
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    IGI
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    Suspension Tech - Sport Compact Car Magazine
    Above link explains it better
    rosejointed balljoint extenders look pretty trick .....i dare say you could fabricate something similar to bolt to an S3 arm

  6. #5
    Andrew@A.L.D's Avatar
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    Its a simple design and will be making them
    RIP S3dave/David Marshall stickers now available
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    Adjustable FPR from 1-5 bar, 2 sets of Unused ARP 3/8 2000 rod bolts, relentless 200 cell cat pipe, Std AGU Crankshaft. Ported & Reconditioned Cylinder head service.

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    s3dave's Avatar
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    Let me know may be interested...

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    TT/S3 arms are the same along with the ball joints and hubs. The A3 has different hubs, wishbones and ball joints.

    Well worth doing this. Im sure you would sell loads if it works out.

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    Andrew@A.L.D's Avatar
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    I'll keep you posted as i'm starting work on them this weekend
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    Alex C's Avatar
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    I asked this a while ago, didnt get much help

    Roll Centre Adjuster??
    Alex S3 AMK
    Bilstein B8s, H&R Springs, Neuspeed ARBs, Genuine 18" BBS LMs & LCR Brembos

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    Andrew@A.L.D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cookstein View Post
    I asked this a while ago, didnt get much help

    Roll Centre Adjuster??
    A simple explanation

    Any car thats been lowered will change the roll centre of the car

    When the car is lowered the wishbones are moved up by the coilovers/springs, the roll centre puts the arms back to where they are meant to be and thus improving handling.
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    Chugger

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew@A.L.D View Post
    A simple explanation

    Any car thats been lowered will change the roll centre of the car

    When the car is lowered the wishbones are moved up by the coilovers/springs, the roll centre puts the arms back to where they are meant to be and thus improving handling.
    i presume also stopping additional control arm bush wear that you get from lowering your car. Will be watching on with intrest
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    Andrew@A.L.D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sportstractor View Post
    i presume also stopping additional control arm bush wear that you get from lowering your car. Will be watching on with intrest
    I forgot about that as it put the arm back in the standard position
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    Adjustable FPR from 1-5 bar, 2 sets of Unused ARP 3/8 2000 rod bolts, relentless 200 cell cat pipe, Std AGU Crankshaft. Ported & Reconditioned Cylinder head service.

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    Imteyaz's Avatar
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    I just found this website (based in Colorado):
    www.PMWltd.com - Performance Machine Works, LTD Racing Suspension Specialists - Product Catalog

    This image helped me in working out what (I think) you mean:



    How much difference would this mod really make to the handling? (I'm a complete noob as you can see from the question that I ask..).
    Imteyaz.

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    Andrew@A.L.D's Avatar
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    Its make a lot of difference as i made some for Fords years ago and i sold over 300 pairs

    Everyone said the improvement was massive

    RIP S3dave/David Marshall stickers now available
    FOR SALE
    Sparco Torino 2 sport seats, None resonated Milltek exhaust,
    Adjustable FPR from 1-5 bar, 2 sets of Unused ARP 3/8 2000 rod bolts, relentless 200 cell cat pipe, Std AGU Crankshaft. Ported & Reconditioned Cylinder head service.

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    Imteyaz's Avatar
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    You have me interested Andrew - would you be looking at making something that the A3 owners would also be able to use or will this be for the S3's only?

    From the information available on the net (and the little amounts of it that I actually understood) it does sound as if there is great benefit to those having lowered cars by improving (read raising) the 'roll centre', the angle of the wishbones should be at minimum level, or pointing 'downwards' at the ball joint end (again, this is my interpretation based on the limited understanding I have).
    Imteyaz.

  17. #16
    Andrew@A.L.D's Avatar
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    I will look into the A3 if someone can send me a A3 ball joint?
    RIP S3dave/David Marshall stickers now available
    FOR SALE
    Sparco Torino 2 sport seats, None resonated Milltek exhaust,
    Adjustable FPR from 1-5 bar, 2 sets of Unused ARP 3/8 2000 rod bolts, relentless 200 cell cat pipe, Std AGU Crankshaft. Ported & Reconditioned Cylinder head service.

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    IGI
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew@A.L.D View Post
    Its make a lot of difference as i made some for Fords years ago and i sold over 300 pairs

    Everyone said the improvement was massive

    Looking good !.... probs a better and simpler idea using the existing balljoint than going the full hog with a rosejointed setup as they can be harsh for road use

  19. #18
    RIP S3dave

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    what about steering arm joint position....
    worth keeping an eye on the steering arms swept arc relative to the lower arm, as you dont want to induce bump steer into this.

    when only one end of this is done, be it steering arm and not lower ball joint position, the two arcs will fight each other.. i know an lcr i saw a year or more ago, had some steering arms which were told to him to be "racing" but what was'nt told to him was that was in conjunction with the lower arms being also very different... Nett result was an undrivable/dangerous car which had bump steer like i have never seen.. just in suspension travel alone it would steer from 3 degrees positive to 3 degress negative tracking, whilst you drove it. undulations and accelerating made it scarey a fcuk!
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  20. #19
    Andrew@A.L.D's Avatar
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    On Fords i use to unbolt the steering arms from the top and refit them to the underside

    Something i will looking also Badger
    RIP S3dave/David Marshall stickers now available
    FOR SALE
    Sparco Torino 2 sport seats, None resonated Milltek exhaust,
    Adjustable FPR from 1-5 bar, 2 sets of Unused ARP 3/8 2000 rod bolts, relentless 200 cell cat pipe, Std AGU Crankshaft. Ported & Reconditioned Cylinder head service.

  21. #20
    Andrew@A.L.D's Avatar
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    The first set will be made as soon as i get a arm from Danny
    RIP S3dave/David Marshall stickers now available
    FOR SALE
    Sparco Torino 2 sport seats, None resonated Milltek exhaust,
    Adjustable FPR from 1-5 bar, 2 sets of Unused ARP 3/8 2000 rod bolts, relentless 200 cell cat pipe, Std AGU Crankshaft. Ported & Reconditioned Cylinder head service.

  22. #21
    Mpathe's Avatar
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    Andrew just a thought but couldn't you put a spacer between the bottom ball joint and the wishbone and use longer bolts to fix them to the wishbone
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    s3dave's Avatar
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    It is possible but would but a lot of strain on the long bolts as the spacer would be + 30mm, plus the ball joints have captive bolts, so you would have to drill them out

  24. #23
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    I know the a3 ball joints come with nuts and bolts instead of the captive bolts so that wouldn't be a problem but as you say it might put to much strain on the bolts
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  25. #24
    Andrew@A.L.D's Avatar
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    The captive bolts are M10 as standard, i'm making kits with M12 longer bolts.

    Looking in to all the problems
    RIP S3dave/David Marshall stickers now available
    FOR SALE
    Sparco Torino 2 sport seats, None resonated Milltek exhaust,
    Adjustable FPR from 1-5 bar, 2 sets of Unused ARP 3/8 2000 rod bolts, relentless 200 cell cat pipe, Std AGU Crankshaft. Ported & Reconditioned Cylinder head service.

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    Alex C's Avatar
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    did you get anywhere with this Andrew?
    Alex S3 AMK
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    putting a spacer between the triangular plate and the wishbone will not change the roll cantre at all.

    It'll make the lower arm more level yes, but it won't change the roll centre.

    The roll centre is the intersection of the lines between the inner pivot point on the wishbone, and the outer ball joint.

    To actually change the roll centre, you need to space the pivot point of the ball joint downwards from the hub centre.

    S3/TT hubs already have huge roll centre correction when compared to the A3 hubs. more than an inch difference!
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  28. #27
    Andrew@A.L.D's Avatar
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    Any more info on these prawn as I plan to get back on to these for are cars. I've come up with a designs and plan to make some for S3 and A3's as I just need a A3 lower arm ball joint
    RIP S3dave/David Marshall stickers now available
    FOR SALE
    Sparco Torino 2 sport seats, None resonated Milltek exhaust,
    Adjustable FPR from 1-5 bar, 2 sets of Unused ARP 3/8 2000 rod bolts, relentless 200 cell cat pipe, Std AGU Crankshaft. Ported & Reconditioned Cylinder head service.

  29. #28
    Alex C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    S3/TT hubs already have huge roll centre correction when compared to the A3 hubs. more than an inch difference!
    Seat LCR hub on the left, Seat LC on the right


    (Allan's Leon Cupra - SEAT Cupra.net - SEAT Forum)
    badger5 likes this.
    Alex S3 AMK
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  30. #29
    Andrew@A.L.D's Avatar
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    Not everyone will want to change the hubs
    RIP S3dave/David Marshall stickers now available
    FOR SALE
    Sparco Torino 2 sport seats, None resonated Milltek exhaust,
    Adjustable FPR from 1-5 bar, 2 sets of Unused ARP 3/8 2000 rod bolts, relentless 200 cell cat pipe, Std AGU Crankshaft. Ported & Reconditioned Cylinder head service.

 

 

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