Mpathe
1st gear
im thinking of doing a brake upgrade and have been looking at mk4 r32 334mm discs and just wondering why they are so dear campared to mk5 r32 345mm discs? anyone know why
mk4 r32 discs
- Thread starter Mpathe
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Mk4 discs are 2 peice. Im pretty sure mk 5 are 1 solid peice. Ive done the mk4 upgrade with zimmerman discs amd yellowstuff pads. Work amazingly well.
Does the upgrade involve replacing both the discs and the calipers?
Do you really get that much more stopping power from an extra 2cm of discs...versus a fresh set of discs, ferodo ds2500 pads, and a good break fluid?
Would you even notice any extra stopping power during daily driving? Or do people go down this route to avoid the brakes heating up as quickly on track days where they're getting a constant hammering, so maybe get an extra lap?
Just wondering what the proven returns are for investments in brake upgrades as I'm looking at mine also...but have pretty much settled on starndard discs and ferodo ds2500 pads.
It seems a lot of these mods don't have much technical data and hard results to back them up - more urban legand and marketing
. I think we saw that recently with the rolling road results from Bills machine...not many stage 1's were hitting the claimed 250-60 bhp!
Do you really get that much more stopping power from an extra 2cm of discs...versus a fresh set of discs, ferodo ds2500 pads, and a good break fluid?
Would you even notice any extra stopping power during daily driving? Or do people go down this route to avoid the brakes heating up as quickly on track days where they're getting a constant hammering, so maybe get an extra lap?
Just wondering what the proven returns are for investments in brake upgrades as I'm looking at mine also...but have pretty much settled on starndard discs and ferodo ds2500 pads.
It seems a lot of these mods don't have much technical data and hard results to back them up - more urban legand and marketing
. I think we saw that recently with the rolling road results from Bills machine...not many stage 1's were hitting the claimed 250-60 bhp!
I have no technical results unfortunatly, but its not just an extra 2cm in disc width the R32 brakes are twin piston so you get more pressure applied evenly across the pads rather than a single piston on the stock brakes, its a very very good uprgrade for the money as you can get a set of front R32 brakes complete for around £250. I have gone from the stock 312mm discs and pads to the stock R32 discs and pads and i have yet to see any brake fade at all no matter how hard/long i use them but before after 3-4 corners the stock brakes were shot so i cant comment on the DS2500 pads on the stock etup but id imagine it would be somewhere in between the 2.
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Ah ok....so I'm guessing people go for used R32 calipers, then brand new discs and pads. Surely that'll be more than 250 if you go for a decent set of discs and especially pads?
Does the R32 setup really reduce the amount of heat from the brakes being gone after "3 or 4 corners" on standard, to "never fading" on R32 setup...sounds like a bit dramatic, can't imagine the difference is that big???
Nice quotes there mate where did you get them from, i never said "never fading" i said i have yet to see any brake fade but not having been on a track with them they might fade i dont know but its people like you that ruin this forum sometimes i dont know why i f***** bother i really dont, if you dont think the difference will be that big then dont ****** ask other peoples onions if your going to criticise them.
Calm down there and take a deep breath! No one was critising your opinions. I think you are being a little defensive. If you're happy enough that your analysis of stock brakes is accurate, and the comparison between stock and the R32 setup is accurate, then what are you bothered what I think and getting all hormonal about it, throwing your toys out of the pram?
You said your stock brakes faded after 3 or 4 corners, but your R32 setup has never faded.
This is sounds like a dramatic improvement. I was merely wondering whether others had noticed firstly that stock brakes faded after 3 or 4 corners, and whether they noticed such a massive improvement when changing to the R32 setup. Nothing to do with critising your opinions.
You said your stock brakes faded after 3 or 4 corners, but your R32 setup has never faded.
This is sounds like a dramatic improvement. I was merely wondering whether others had noticed firstly that stock brakes faded after 3 or 4 corners, and whether they noticed such a massive improvement when changing to the R32 setup. Nothing to do with critising your opinions.
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Cut a long story short, standard 312mm brakes are good for standard power and general road/fast road use, but not ideal for track work. R32 setup is good for remapped S3's and the odd softcore trackday driver, but be warned, R32 brake disks are NOT CHEAP to replace! Brembo GT kit or bigger, most people buy these for the look of having awesome calipers behind the wheels, but you will need these for the hardcore track enthusiast running remapped power+, again, replacement parts for these are not cheap neither.
Just my opinions of course.
Just my opinions of course.
Thanks for the info JoJo. Yes, all just opinions
@Breezy, apologies if you felt your opinions were being criticised, but as I explained I was merely asking whether others shared your experience with the setup.
@Breezy, apologies if you felt your opinions were being criticised, but as I explained I was merely asking whether others shared your experience with the setup.
Wow, lots of heat in this thread. I guess we are talking about dissipating kinetic energy as heat, which funnily enough is exactly what you need to consider when discussing performance of brake setups!
99.99...% of cars have brakes designed for road use. That includes the s3 and the r32. No manufacturer will fit brake configurations fit for race or track use when the customer expects the car to drive on public roads in a civilised manner. The reason for this is race/track spec brakes perform poorly when cold and make lots of noise.
To the OP - the R32 discs as someone has already mentioned are 2-piece which adds substantially to manufacturing costs, hence the price
Now regarding:
This is everyones primary question when talking about brake upgrades. The fact of the physics is simples. Standard brakes are usually poorly performing, mostly due to maintainance or lack thereof, and poor compound OE pads.
Fact - If a braking setup can lock up your wheels without resorting to balancing a fat mum on your brake pedal, you dont need bigger brakes to get better "stopping power".
What spirited drivers often come across, and is probably the biggest reason for complaint, and is the reason that those who are none the wiser throw money at obscenely large discs and 99pot calipers is brake fade. This is caused in the first instance by boiling brake fluid losing its hydraulic properties and not providing as much pressure as it should, which is itself caused by being in contact with the discs and pads being asked to dissipate more heat in a given amount of time than they are able to. Secondly it is caused by pads being constructed of friction materials which do not operate as effectively at high temperatures.
Obviously all these problems are exagerated by poor/late maintenance with air in the brake system and OE spongey rubber hoses.
The solution for all of these problems, which you will be thankful to know is also the cheapest, is not to get discs to fill your 18" alloys and calipers big enough to endo a bus, but to simply replace your brake fluid with high boiling point "racing" fluid, and replace your pads for some reputable high performance variety. All in your looking at £120-£150. Optionally throw on some braided hoses for absolutely solid braking performance. This setup will satisfy the craziest road going speeder.
If you are in the 1% which frequents track days several times a year, then it is likely you need a brake setup with a larger heat capacity and therefore need larger discs and bigger calipers. Otherwise dont be a fool save your money.
EDIT- I forgot to round it off:
In conclusion, an r32 setup will not objectively outperform an upgraded and maintained 312mm S3 setup, as they will both lock up the wheels on demand, unless you are on a track and have done a *good* few laps and reached the heat capacity of your 312's. Which if you do on the road, you deserve to be behind bars.
99.99...% of cars have brakes designed for road use. That includes the s3 and the r32. No manufacturer will fit brake configurations fit for race or track use when the customer expects the car to drive on public roads in a civilised manner. The reason for this is race/track spec brakes perform poorly when cold and make lots of noise.
To the OP - the R32 discs as someone has already mentioned are 2-piece which adds substantially to manufacturing costs, hence the price
Now regarding:
For r32 setup yes.
This is everyones primary question when talking about brake upgrades. The fact of the physics is simples. Standard brakes are usually poorly performing, mostly due to maintainance or lack thereof, and poor compound OE pads.
Fact - If a braking setup can lock up your wheels without resorting to balancing a fat mum on your brake pedal, you dont need bigger brakes to get better "stopping power".
What spirited drivers often come across, and is probably the biggest reason for complaint, and is the reason that those who are none the wiser throw money at obscenely large discs and 99pot calipers is brake fade. This is caused in the first instance by boiling brake fluid losing its hydraulic properties and not providing as much pressure as it should, which is itself caused by being in contact with the discs and pads being asked to dissipate more heat in a given amount of time than they are able to. Secondly it is caused by pads being constructed of friction materials which do not operate as effectively at high temperatures.
Obviously all these problems are exagerated by poor/late maintenance with air in the brake system and OE spongey rubber hoses.
The solution for all of these problems, which you will be thankful to know is also the cheapest, is not to get discs to fill your 18" alloys and calipers big enough to endo a bus, but to simply replace your brake fluid with high boiling point "racing" fluid, and replace your pads for some reputable high performance variety. All in your looking at £120-£150. Optionally throw on some braided hoses for absolutely solid braking performance. This setup will satisfy the craziest road going speeder.
If you are in the 1% which frequents track days several times a year, then it is likely you need a brake setup with a larger heat capacity and therefore need larger discs and bigger calipers. Otherwise dont be a fool save your money.
EDIT- I forgot to round it off:
In conclusion, an r32 setup will not objectively outperform an upgraded and maintained 312mm S3 setup, as they will both lock up the wheels on demand, unless you are on a track and have done a *good* few laps and reached the heat capacity of your 312's. Which if you do on the road, you deserve to be behind bars.
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Mk4 R32 setup is 334mm with twin pot calipers off the top pf my head. The Brembo GT kit(or LCR setup) is the 323mm kit with 4pot aluminium calipers.
Yeah your prob right jojo, tbh its in a sticky thread at the top of the forums, so not too concerned about mm accuracies, more concerned with informing those none the wiser about where is best to spend their money.
So it sounds like a new set of OEM discs up front with some DS2500 pads, along with some racing brake fluid, will give the best bang for buck?
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This would be adequate for fast road driving, and even the odd track day. You would really need to kill the car to get this setup to fade.
jdas03
Registered User
Just thought i'd add my thoughts in.
I did a track day at brands hatch last year, totally standard S3.
Before the track day i fitted some EBC turbo grooved discs and yellow stuff pads and a complete fluid change.
Results were great as far as i had no brake fade at all, and i was gunning it round the track, one session of around 25 minutes!
The brakes were damn hot but performed well.
Only problem is they have never exactly bitten hard, as in you dont get thrown forward when braking really hard (i suppose confidence inspiring is more the term), i think that is more due to the set up as i have heard opinions that the yellow stuff pads are nothing in comparison to the ds2500s.
My opinion is that a good standard set up will definitely do you for road use, and the odd track day.
Frequent trackers upgrade to a bigger setup
I did a track day at brands hatch last year, totally standard S3.
Before the track day i fitted some EBC turbo grooved discs and yellow stuff pads and a complete fluid change.
Results were great as far as i had no brake fade at all, and i was gunning it round the track, one session of around 25 minutes!
The brakes were damn hot but performed well.
Only problem is they have never exactly bitten hard, as in you dont get thrown forward when braking really hard (i suppose confidence inspiring is more the term), i think that is more due to the set up as i have heard opinions that the yellow stuff pads are nothing in comparison to the ds2500s.
My opinion is that a good standard set up will definitely do you for road use, and the odd track day.
Frequent trackers upgrade to a bigger setup
