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Thread: Just bled brakes but pedal feels worse!

  1. #1
    Jonesy's Avatar
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    Just bled brakes but pedal feels worse!

    Hi, i've just finished bleeding my brakes using the Gunson EeziBleed kit. Everything went well used about 1 and a half litres of dot 4 fluid. I did the nipples in correct order and was surprised by the amount of dirt and bubbles coming out. Anyway, thought id test it quickly down my road and brake pedal has gone worse. It feels very spongy and unresponsive, they work, but you end up putting the pedal all the way down!

    Do I need to run Vagcom following these instructions?
    Ross-Tech: VAG-COM: ABS Brake Pump Bleeding

    any other ideas, as far as i'm aware i've done everything right! Oh also when i finished the reservoir was to the brim, i got a little out but have a feeling its overfilled, would this make a difference?

    Thanks

    Allan
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    2001 Audi S3 - Facelift - Revo remap - Forge 007p DV - BMC Panel Filter- Type R Ariel - Aero wipers - n75j valve.

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    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Did you bleed the master cylinder? 2 x bleed nipples on the MC...

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  4. #3
    Jonesy's Avatar
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    No i haven't, where is the master cylinder?

    Allan
    2001 Audi S3 - Facelift - Revo remap - Forge 007p DV - BMC Panel Filter- Type R Ariel - Aero wipers - n75j valve.

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    It's directly under the resoviour (can't spell that for toffee!) Looking directly down from it, you'll see 2 bleed nipples.
    Atlas Grey A4 2.5 TDI Quattro Sport.
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    Jonesy's Avatar
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    Do i use the same method i did on the caliper nipples using the ezibleed kit? Last time i looked theres not much room in that area!

    edit - just looked at no room whats so ever. Could just about see 1 nipple. I take it you need to remove the turbo pipe.
    Last edited by Jonesy; 17th September 2010 at 18:40.
    2001 Audi S3 - Facelift - Revo remap - Forge 007p DV - BMC Panel Filter- Type R Ariel - Aero wipers - n75j valve.

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    I've only done it on a TDI and there was room. So can't advise sorry.
    By easi bleed, do you mean the pressure bleed kit? or just pedal pump?
    Atlas Grey A4 2.5 TDI Quattro Sport.
    Mods so far: Cruise control, DIS, Heated Mirrors, Tuning box, Xenonx, Centre Arm Rest, MFSW, RNS-E, SDS and Aero Wipers.
    To do: None yet.
    Next: Auto dip rearview mirror and Folding Mirrors.

  8. #7
    Jonesy's Avatar
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    its a pressure bleed kit, i attach to a spare wheel. Gonna try the vagcom method and see what happens. If no luck, ill look into getting at the master cylinder.

    Thanks
    2001 Audi S3 - Facelift - Revo remap - Forge 007p DV - BMC Panel Filter- Type R Ariel - Aero wipers - n75j valve.

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    Jonesy's Avatar
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    ok got the car in the air, ran the vagcom instructions and it wants me to undo the front nipples!!! Its getting dark and im not in the mood. Can anyone explain what steps i need to do during the vagcom scan, just so i no when i next attempt it.

    Thanks
    2001 Audi S3 - Facelift - Revo remap - Forge 007p DV - BMC Panel Filter- Type R Ariel - Aero wipers - n75j valve.

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    I recon you will still need to do the MC, i know the last few i did, the peddle was awful until the 2 at the MC were done.

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    Jonesy's Avatar
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    Thanks, im gonna attempt the mc 2moro.
    2001 Audi S3 - Facelift - Revo remap - Forge 007p DV - BMC Panel Filter- Type R Ariel - Aero wipers - n75j valve.

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    Jonesy's Avatar
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    Hey, I've removed the charger pipe to allow better access, moved a power steering pipe slightly and also removed a cover for the cam belt.



    So i think ive got just about enough room to bleed the nipples. But few questions, what size are they 6-7mm? Do i bleed these both or just one, any order? Is there much oil in them?

    Sorry for all the questions.

    Thanks again

    Allan
    2001 Audi S3 - Facelift - Revo remap - Forge 007p DV - BMC Panel Filter- Type R Ariel - Aero wipers - n75j valve.

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    beachbuggy's Avatar
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    Also bleed the clutch, right hand side of the engine bay at the front on top of the gearbox, you'll find another bleed nipple there.

    If you do the abs bleed as well, you'll need to do it at least twice and I would say 3 times just to get all the fluid through, takes about 15 minutes per bleed cycle but if you have 2 people it's a lot quicker. Each cycle doesn't bleed that much fluid.

  14. #13
    jojo's Avatar
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    How did you get on with this Jonesy? Need to do mine aswell, since the pedal feels a bit mushy since I bled the calipers, but not the MC. Definitely a pressure bleeder only job with the MC right?



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    Jonesy's Avatar
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    Hey, just finished the master cylinder wasnt too difficult with the charge pipe out of the way. It was just clean, clear fluid no bubbles from both the nipples of the mc. Run out of fluid to do the clutch, but tbh the brakes are my main priority atm so need them sorted first.

    I started the car and left it to run for 10 mins. Unfortunately no difference to the feel of the pedal. I took it for a drive and they work pretty well still, emergency stops are fine.

    jojo, pressure bleeder makes the job so much easier, definitely recommend one, I use this -
    Gunson Eezibleed Kit - Screwfix.com, Where the Trade Buys

    Does anyone know if my car will fail a mot is the brake pedal is spongy??? I have brand new disks and pads on front and rear.

    Allan
    2001 Audi S3 - Facelift - Revo remap - Forge 007p DV - BMC Panel Filter- Type R Ariel - Aero wipers - n75j valve.

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    scott b's Avatar
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    did you just fit the new brakes at the same time as bleading them?

    if so the brakes will feel spongey for a bit

  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post

    jojo, pressure bleeder makes the job so much easier, definitely recommend one, I use this -
    Gunson Eezibleed Kit - Screwfix.com, Where the Trade Buys
    I already have one of these, cheers.
    Does anyone know if my car will fail a mot is the brake pedal is spongy??? I have brand new disks and pads on front and rear.

    Allan
    I would find a quiet road, say later on in the evening to do some heaving braking sessions to bed the brakes in to see if it makes a difference. I just put brand new disks and pads on my Passat, drove for 20 minutes with some heavy braking just to bed them in, as the missus uses that car mainly.

    The reason for the above is, a friend of mine had his brakes done, 5minutes into his journey, he had to make an emergency brake with his new pads. but ended going into the back of another car writing his one off in the process! So I always bed them in if I do a change myself.



    99' Audi S3(APY) - Brilliant Black Click>>>Going Sideways vid!
    You've got to have a laugh! For Sale:LCR Brakes - £400



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    Jonesy's Avatar
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    the front pads and disks have only a few miles on them, rears are a couple months old, problem is i cant wear them in as car is sorn and i need to get it through mot!

    edit - jojo i may do as you say tonight, theres quite a few quiet rounds round my area. Hope i dont get pulled :/

    Allan
    Last edited by Jonesy; 20th September 2010 at 19:21.
    2001 Audi S3 - Facelift - Revo remap - Forge 007p DV - BMC Panel Filter- Type R Ariel - Aero wipers - n75j valve.

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    jojo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post
    the front pads and disks have only a few miles on them, rears are a couple months old, problem is i cant wear them in as car is sorn and i need to get it through mot!

    edit - jojo i may do as you say tonight, theres quite a few quiet rounds round my area. Hope i dont get pulled :/

    Allan
    Just remember to cool them down after geting some heat in them



    99' Audi S3(APY) - Brilliant Black Click>>>Going Sideways vid!
    You've got to have a laugh! For Sale:LCR Brakes - £400



  20. #19
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    Hi, just thought id let everyone know the car passed the MOT with flying colours yesterday! Not quite sure how??! Had it done at Dynes in crayford for 22.50, bargin! Was bricking it as every person before me their cars had failed lol.

    The brakes still aint amazing, but i did what jojo said and went out at night to wear the disks and pads in and it defiently made a difference. Ive got a bit more bite in the pedal now, still slighty spongy but i guess ill have to get used to it.

    Thanks for all the help guys

    Allan
    2001 Audi S3 - Facelift - Revo remap - Forge 007p DV - BMC Panel Filter- Type R Ariel - Aero wipers - n75j valve.

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    These A3/S3 brakes are a pain to be sure.... i ran all new fluid through mine a couple of months back as the pedal is spongy and it made no difference at all... that said i didn't do the clutch or cycle the ABS which i may do when i get some spare time.... if and when i'lll post back and let you know if it improved matters... are new master cylinders exspensive / hard to change ???
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    I ran vagcom on the A3 last weekend, I need to bleed the brakes again. But it made the pedal feel 10 times better.
    Atlas Grey A4 2.5 TDI Quattro Sport.
    Mods so far: Cruise control, DIS, Heated Mirrors, Tuning box, Xenonx, Centre Arm Rest, MFSW, RNS-E, SDS and Aero Wipers.
    To do: None yet.
    Next: Auto dip rearview mirror and Folding Mirrors.

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post
    Hey, I've removed the charger pipe to allow better access, moved a power steering pipe slightly and also removed a cover for the cam belt.



    So i think ive got just about enough room to bleed the nipples. But few questions, what size are they 6-7mm? Do i bleed these both or just one, any order? Is there much oil in them?

    Sorry for all the questions.

    Thanks again

    Allan
    I have my brakes back! Thanks to the above pic, it made it all a lot easier! I took my charge pipe off, but left the camcover on. Used a deep 7mm socket to undo(loosen) the bleed nipples, then re-tighten them lightly, put the easi-bleed kit on and used a mini 7mm ring spanner to undo the bleed nipples with one of the clear tubes on the end to save spillage. I could hear a woosh of air as soon as I undid it, then just fluid with no bubbles, job done.

    Cheers.



    99' Audi S3(APY) - Brilliant Black Click>>>Going Sideways vid!
    You've got to have a laugh! For Sale:LCR Brakes - £400



  24. #23
    [Dave B]'s Avatar
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    Thread resurrection!

    If i'm changing the front and rear pads and discs on an S3, do I need to bleed the system afterwards? I'd expect not as I'm not opening the system anywhere, but these threads make me think I might.

    Cheers,
    Dave.
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  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funky_Junky View Post
    Thread resurrection!

    If i'm changing the front and rear pads and discs on an S3, do I need to bleed the system afterwards? I'd expect not as I'm not opening the system anywhere, but these threads make me think I might.

    Cheers,
    Dave.
    No need mate, just open the brake fluid reservoir when you use the caliper wind back tool to make things easier.



    99' Audi S3(APY) - Brilliant Black Click>>>Going Sideways vid!
    You've got to have a laugh! For Sale:LCR Brakes - £400



  26. #25
    [Dave B]'s Avatar
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    Would that not introduce air into the system, hence them subsequently needing bleeding? Can they be done without opening the res?
    > S3 225 (03) - OEM+
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  27. #26
    jojo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funky_Junky View Post
    Would that not introduce air into the system, hence them subsequently needing bleeding? Can they be done without opening the res?
    lol, well, if you know anything about air and liquids(I presume you do), the air always floats to the top, hence the reservoir is usually the highest point, the idea of bleeding the brakes is trapped air in the pipes of the braking system. So opening the reservoir will not introduce air into the braking system where it's not needed, just undo the top, no need to take it off, it just makes the caliper piston easier to push in, as it's not pressurised.



    99' Audi S3(APY) - Brilliant Black Click>>>Going Sideways vid!
    You've got to have a laugh! For Sale:LCR Brakes - £400



  28. #27
    [Dave B]'s Avatar
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    Well I think it's clear that I know very litte

    Cheers Jojo.
    > S3 225 (03) - OEM+
    > 205 GTI (90) - Limited Edition Miami Blue with full leather - 1 of only 300 made
    > Clio v6 255 (05) - Lethal Weapon

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    Sorry to bump a slightly old thread, could anyone advise what pressure to use with a bleeder kit?

    I tried to bleed mine today and the brake reservoir split and sprayed brake fluid all over the car and garage (roof, boot, bonnet ). I'd pumped to 20psi.

    Going to give it another go over the weekend assuming I can get hold of a new reservoir in time but obviously don't want a repeat performance

  30. #29
    Ross_S4

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    well mate 20 psig should be okay for the eezibleed kit however it that doesn;t necessarily mean it will be okay for the reservoir.
    sounds like you have introduced this pressure and this has then exposed an existing weakness and split your reservoir.

    Bear in mind that yes although the brake hydraulics are a high pressure system, the reservoir is not part of the HP system and is merely an atmospheric tank for the liquid.

    When I was doing mine i did it at 15 psig which is approx 1 barg and had no problems at all.

  31. #30
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    I'm not using the eezibleed but thought 20psi should have been ok for the reservoir, as you say maybe it was an existing weakness. I'll stick with 15 next time round though

  32. #31
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    20 is too much for audi resovoirs.

    No more than 10psi and you'll be fine.

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