Brake problem, really doin my head in now!!!!

[warleydaddy]

Ever since I've had my S3,I've always thought the brakes were quite poor.. So I've weighed up the best route, and didn't wanna go brembo's, so went for Brembo discs,full braided hoses, and ds2500's... Now all are fitted, I thought the problem would be sorted, but alas, STILL ****!!! I've bled them up 4 times, done the vag com abs bleed thing 4 times too, but still have a soft/spongy peddle.... With the car not running, the peddle is supurb, but as soon as I start it, if I push the brake, it just sinks all the way to the floor... Now if it was the other way round, I'd think servo, but it's not.. All I have left to change is the master cylinder, but don't wanna fork on out on 1, if this is a common problem, and there's another fix???

If anyone has any ideas,PLEASE let me know,

Cheers in advance,

Pete.....

[jojo]

Have you bled the master cylinder?

[warleydaddy]

Yup, done that twice too.. There's not a bubble in sight...

Pete..

[aragorn]

If its hitting the floor somethings got air in it.

How are you bleeding it?

[warleydaddy]

Bleeding it the normal way... Start furthest away from master cylinder, and work my way round, bubble free system, then bled MC, then brakes again, AND AGAIN, then lap top in, and bled abs, and still with 'no' luck, hence thinking MC is shot... Anyone elses peddle soft/spongy???

Pete..

[jdas03]

Mines a bit spongy, had mine done when i had new discs and pads fitted.
Pedal doesnt go to the floor but it isnt always reassuring when you put your foot hard on it, doesnt bite like modern cars, but this is the way the system is i guess being an older car with older technology?

[MrCSW]

I had an A4 in my workshop last week, the servo seam had partly split allowing water in... Which gave a god aweful pedal feel.
Only noticed as i went to change the master and had a peek in the servo, which was full of water.

Ive also got a recept for my servo being changed under warrenty (before my ownership - so i dont know what the symptoms were.)

[Dani_B19]

Sorry pete, completely forgot that i didnt call you back. Cant believe you still havent got the brakes sorted! Hows the brakes when driving? Do they bight etc?

[thorsy22]

You say you bleed in the normal way, just to check you are using a pressure bleeder?

[S3 TAM]

my petal is a bit soft as well. it doen't hit the floor but like jdas03 says it not very reassuring.

[talentwalsh]

I test drove a few different S3's before settling on my one and they all had spongy brakes, hence the reason I didnt take them. The anchors on mine are top notch thankfully. I think they need to be pressure bled rather than just tapping off the nipple.

[S3 TAM]

I test drove a few different S3's before settling on my one and they all had spongy brakes, hence the reason I didnt take them. The anchors on mine are top notch thankfully. I think they need to be pressure bled rather than just tapping off the nipple.

Are you brakes really sharp?

[1animal1]

mine are spot on too touch wood....comapared to the A3 neway, the difference is night and day

hope ya get it sorted Pete ya big lesbian

[jojo]

I have to say, it's odd to have a Passat sitting outside that brakes better than an S3 with the same brakes(312mm's)! Why are 8L's so damned hard to bleed?

[b1gdave83]

Correct! you need a pressure kit, don't forget the clutch also works off the brake fluid, you can't bleed that without the kit.

It is possible that your servo is to blame, or the vacuum pipe to the servo is leaking

[rraghvani]

Last weekend, I ended up changing all brake discs and bleed the brakes/clutch using Motive Brake Bleeder from Eurocarparts. Decided to use the Motive Brake Bleeder (named Sealy) instead of the Eezibleed Kit as I have more control over the psi and plus I don’t have to constantly keep an eye on the brake fluid level. There’s a slight spongy feel to it, probably because there’s air trapped in the master cylinder, as I couldn’t get to the two nipples to bleed the air out, and I don’t have the appropriate tool to cycle through the ABS system - apart from that the brakes work fine.

If the peddle practically drops to the floor, then I’m guessing the brake system is not pressurised properly or most likely you have air trapped. I’m quite certain that when bleeding the system, it’s also necessary to do the clutch too.

I’ve experienced the same problem couple of years ago with spongy brakes, and my clutch was playing up too. My clutch kept on slipping in various gears depending on how hot/cold the weather was. I came to the conclusion that there was air trapped in the clutch line, which kept on slightly disengaging the clutch which caused the slippage.

[warleydaddy]

Ahhhh I didn't bleed the clutch... Il have a pop at that the week end too then... Cheers for your replies guys..

Pete....

[talentwalsh]

Are you brakes really sharp?

Ya there well sharp, minimal pedal travel before they bite and they bite hard at that. I think I just got lucky!!

[barters3]

so just to clarify; you definitely need to bleed the clutch aswell.
would anybody be able to do a brief list of points to cover when bleeding the brakes. New discs, pads and fluid is on my list of things to do in a month or so. Just wanted to give my mate whos doing it a heads up, as im not sure if he is familiar with the set up?

[b1gdave83]

Yep, fairly easy.

• First off buy a pressure bleeding kit.

• Drop the pressure on your spare wheel, down to about 14PSi (if I remember correctly).

• Connect up kit to master cylinder, and put new fluid in the supplied bottle.

• Get tube which you can put over the bleed nipples and feed it into an empty pot.

• Then connect the kit up to your spare wheel.

• Undo bleed nipple on one of the brakes, and the fluid will be forced out down your tube and into the empty bottle. Do it back up once can't see any more bubbles in the tube.

• Keep an eye on the amount of fluid in your kit bottle!

• Move onto the next one and do the same, until you have done all 4 brakes

• Don't forget to bleed the clutch as well, which is located on top of the gear box (actuator). if you can't find it get your mate to pump the clutch while you look for it moving on top of the gearbox.

ABS bleeding (if necessary)

• Now if you want to make sure you change all the fluid, including what's in the ABS unit you need Vagcom. Follow this procedure Ross-Tech: VAG-COM: ABS Brake Pump Bleeding
• If I just bleed the ABS unit, then I would do the above procedure again just encase, there were any air bubbles in the unit.

When I had finished the master cylinder had to much fluid in it, so i just used a syringe to remove some of the fluid

Hope the above helps

[b1gdave83]

I was thinking last night about your problem, make sure the one way valve on the vacuum pipe going to servo is OK,
I'd personally disconnect the PCV system pipes and (block up) from brake vacuum hose to the servo as it's not required anyway.

http://i771.photobucket.com/albums/xx359/B1gdave83/images.jpg

so it looks like this

http://i771.photobucket.com/albums/x...e5090c8f_b.jpg

[jojo]

That's a clean engine bay!

[b1gdave83]

Lol if only it was mine.... i randomly grab some photos of the net to help