Rolling road power query

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gez

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Hi all. Had my 2002 S3 put on the rollers for a stage 2 REVO. i currently have REVO2 with 3" downpipe/cat, FMIC, TIP, 007p, panel filter and the car only made 256bhp and 289lbs/ft.
Now from my understanding, correct me if im wrong, the S3 is made to run FWD on the rollers as the haldex tries to switch the power front to rear so it cant be run fully 4WD. So only a certainamount of the power is being sent to the front wheels, thus making less power than it should.
Is this correct?
I know its not all about how much bhp you have, its how it drives, buti would like to know what power its putting out.
Anyone have any comments to make?
 
Nope, that's not correct mate I'm afraid. It will make the same power either on 2WD or 4WD. Mechanical drag remains the same, and the power is simply delivered through the front wheels.

In my personal opinion, that is around the correct figures for a REVO Stage 2, maybe a little low - but not much, and sadly their claims are just a load of rubbish. Mine is equivelent REVO Stage 2 with bags more timing than a Stage 2 map, and I only made 3 more BHP than you.

EDIT: Good torque though.
 
I had on a "Dyno Dynamics" ment to be one of the best rolling roads around with the spec below... 250Bhp and 285Ftb
 
That's shocking! Revo quoted me 270-275bhp daily and then high boost on my SPS 3 control would be 280-285bhp. That was for a stage 2 Revo and using the SPS 3 i have sitting at home.

I'm running at Stage 1 Superchips at the mo which was already on the car and with a few mods i've done i'm getting 258bhp with 244 lbs/ft. My torque seems really low though compared to others!?
 
DJ_Troopa said:
That's shocking! Revo quoted me 270-275bhp daily and then high boost on my SPS 3 control would be 280-285bhp. That was for a stage 2 Revo and using the SPS 3 i have sitting at home.

I'm running at Stage 1 Superchips at the mo which was already on the car and with a few mods i've done i'm getting 258bhp with 244 lbs/ft. My torque seems really low though compared to others!?
Click to expand...

Yea used the SPS3 system... Boost cranked up to "9"
 
indiemike said:
Yea used the SPS3 system... Boost cranked up to "9"
Click to expand...

My map is also on high boost at 9 but my timing is at approx level 11 (I know that doesn't exist - extra timing added) and still making around 260 ish. My turbo not making requested boost though as I suspect actuator has gone soft.

Using an MBC to get the requested boost has brought BHP up and Torque up miles.
 
What does timing and boost mean on the SPS control?

I've had a fully rebuilt turbo by CR with upgraded thrust bearings so hopefully the turbo will stay consistent when the time comes for Revo stage 2!
 
DJ_Troopa said:
What does timing and boost mean on the SPS control?
Click to expand...

Adjusts timing and boost level on the map (as they are adjustable). Standard REVO map is level 6 I believe and then max is 9 on both timing and boost.

Bear in mind, too much timing is BAD! Big timing pull figures if adjusted too much.
 
DJ_Troopa said:
That's shocking! Revo quoted me 270-275bhp daily and then high boost on my SPS 3 control would be 280-285bhp. That was for a stage 2 Revo and using the SPS 3 i have sitting at home.

I'm running at Stage 1 Superchips at the mo which was already on the car and with a few mods i've done i'm getting 258bhp with 244 lbs/ft. My torque seems really low though compared to others!?
Click to expand...

What they quote and whats actually produce are further away than you would think.... let me draw your attention to a recent test of 'quoted' figures vs actual...
NEW DYNO for Badger5 - Premesis move deferred - Page 14 - SEAT Cupra.net - SEAT Forum

The thing to note is the before and after figures...

<tuffty/>
 
tufftybloke said:
What they quote and whats actually produce are further away than you would think.... let me draw your attention to a recent test of 'quoted' figures vs actual...
NEW DYNO for Badger5 - Premesis move deferred - Page 14 - SEAT Cupra.net - SEAT Forum

The thing to note is the before and after figures...

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...


That's good stuff there! Madness on what they quote and what you actually get! Goodness me, i won't get my hopes up too much for a Revo stage 2 then lol.
 
i cant belive im only up 35hp and 80lbs/ft with revo2 from std and ive spent roughly £1200 to get there. crikey.
But to be honest it feels soo much quicker than 255bhp on the road
 
on my dyno on a std 225 LCR I saw between 223-230bhp and 198lbft depending on how hot it was
a revo stage 1 s3 with its sps maxed to 9's plus some more timing on top, 259bhp/238lbft

a hybrid K03/4 with water meth 273bhp/280lbft
a TDi 150 Leon, 175bhp/260lbft before remap and 205bhp/322lbft after

My rollers are obviously of the grumpy nature like me :)
 
gez said:
Hi all. Had my 2002 S3 put on the rollers for a stage 2 REVO. i currently have REVO2 with 3" downpipe/cat, FMIC, TIP, 007p, panel filter and the car only made 256bhp and 289lbs/ft.
Now from my understanding, correct me if im wrong, the S3 is made to run FWD on the rollers as the haldex tries to switch the power front to rear so it cant be run fully 4WD. So only a certainamount of the power is being sent to the front wheels, thus making less power than it should.
Is this correct?
I know its not all about how much bhp you have, its how it drives, buti would like to know what power its putting out.
Anyone have any comments to make?
Click to expand...

bhp sells cars, a flat smooth torque line wins races.

change your injectors, they're 8 years old, you'll prob get another 2% increase.

not sure why people are so bothered about figures, who cares!!

audi quote 225bhp at the CRANK, not the wheels, there's a huge difference, your car prob has around 285 bhp at the crank, around 15% is lost through the transmission and drive shaft system.
 
Im pretty sure my dyno graph says engine power not wheel power. Surly not 289lbs at the wheels?!?!
 
Figures are fine. 80lbs increase is alot. Thats why remaps feel so good.
 
gez said:
Im pretty sure my dyno graph says engine power not wheel power. Surly not 289lbs at the wheels?!?!
Click to expand...

if the wheels were on a rolling road, then the power was calculated from the wheels........... unless they took the whole engine out and connected the crank to some sort of machine when you was not watching lol.

289lbs @ 4,000 rpm = 220 bhp, 289lbs @ 5,000 rpm = 275bhp

where did you get this torque figure from, unless your engine is dropping its torque curve dramitcally once it reaches 4,000 rpm, there is something drastically wrong with your figures

are you sure it's not 289 bhp and 256lb - that would make more sense
 
I think you may have misinterpreted gez's post. I assume when he says engine power, he means flywheel power and when he refers to wheel power I assume he means bhp at the wheel, ie flywheel power minus transmission loses.

Im a little unsure as to what you mean with the "289lbs @ 4,000 rpm = 220 bhp, 289lbs @ 5,000 rpm = 275bhp". Surely you would need a graph to analysis to come up with such info. 220 bhp @ 4000 rpm then 275 bhp @ 5000 rpm, thats a pretty steep gradient is it not.

Personally I think a strong running stage 2 S3 should make roughly 270 - 280 bhp and 280 - 300 ft/lbs.

Nathan
 
gez said:
Im pretty sure my dyno graph says engine power not wheel power. Surly not 289lbs at the wheels?!?!
Click to expand...

got the plot they gave you?
should have at the wheels power figures and torque, plus coastdown/rolling losses probably (unless its a Dyno dynamics and it just adds a figure to the at the wheel figures)
 
colicabcadam said:
if the wheels were on a rolling road, then the power was calculated from the wheels........... unless they took the whole engine out and connected the crank to some sort of machine when you was not watching lol.

289lbs @ 4,000 rpm = 220 bhp, 289lbs @ 5,000 rpm = 275bhp

where did you get this torque figure from, unless your engine is dropping its torque curve dramitcally once it reaches 4,000 rpm, there is something drastically wrong with your figures

are you sure it's not 289 bhp and 256lb - that would make more sense
Click to expand...

unless you know the rpms these figures were achieved you can only be guessing the numbers..
285bhp would want around 228g/s or more of g/s airflow as another guide/comparison
 
S3 Nattie said:
Im a little unsure as to what you mean with the "289lbs @ 4,000 rpm = 220 bhp, 289lbs @ 5,000 rpm = 275bhp". Surely you would need a graph to analysis to come up with such info. 220 bhp @ 4000 rpm then 275 bhp @ 5000 rpm, thats a pretty steep gradient is it not.

Nathan
Click to expand...

remember, bhp is calculated by torque and rpm, the above statement was a theory if he had a flat torque curve, that would be the bhp at those revs. therefore, his torque curve must dramatically drop at around 4,500 rpm to get only a max 256bhp

let's say he has 256bhp @ 5,800 rpm, at this point, his engine would be creating 220lbs torque, therefor that's a big jump down from 280lbs! i'd say his peak torque figure was gained before 4500 rpm but then after this his torque figures dropped quite quickly

i'd like to see the print out to see if i am correct lol
 
Alright Bill, my air flow is 208 g/s according to my Liquid Gauge as you requested before. That's with a BMC but i'm coming to you soon for a huge Jetex filter! :)
 
Here is the dyno graph for my revo2 map.
the RED line is my previous custom map and the PINK line is the "unadapted" REVO2 map.
scan0001-1.jpg

scan0002-1.jpg
 
This is why I LOL at my "alledged" BHP figures on a stage 1 remap....
 
so does my graph seen about right? am i low on BHP but high on torque.
Im fitting an MBC this week to try and get the boost to hold longer in the revs and will take it back to AMD to put it on the rollers to check the fueling.
 
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